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Why Six Sigma Master Black Belts (mbb) Look for TRIZ

| On 01, Jan 2010

Message: 246
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Wednesday, 7th February 2007


After teaching TRIZ at the University of Kassel, Germany since 1996 and introducing it in all my Six Sigma training programmes since 4 years, finally I start to get inquiries from Six Sigma Leaders like ” I am wondering, why MBBs should look for TRIZ!?”

 

First, nobody said, that Six Sigma tools set  of 70-s last century is a complete and state-of-the -art forever!

There are many weak points at all phases of DMAIC and/or DFSS, where TRIZ adds enormous value,  starting from

*weak or no tools for efficient and exhaustive analysis of opportunities and problem formulation  in traditional Six Sigma set: Triz and especially I-TRIZ tools speed up and support it in a systematic and exaustive way

.- Define phase

*creative and knowledge-supported systematic search for root causes of failures or defects – Measure phase

* efficient analyltic analysis of the failure causes by comparing with analogies – Analysis phase

* enhancing ones knowledge space and assisting in brainstorming and generating highly efficient and innovative improvement/design ideas, leading min to 3-4 times sigma capability improvements – Improve/Design phase

*systemic and patent knowledge-based risk analysis and prediction of error free solutions and concepts – Verify/Control phase

 

It is better although to educate Master Black Belts not just in TRIZ but in TRIZ Six Sigma context within the traditional six sigma project management roadmaps.

 

Would appreciate any comments /experiences

 

Elena


Message: 247
Posted by: Trev
Posted on: Thursday, 8th February 2007


Elena,

You said, “…Six Sigma tools set  of 70-s last century…”

If I understand the history correctly, TQM and quality circles were all the rage in the 1970s. Six Sigma began in 1987 at Motorola and only caught fire in the corporate world in the mid 1990s. You make Six Sigma sound so outdated. Did you do this on purpose?

Trev


Message: 249
Posted by: 6 Sigma BB Coordinator
Posted on: Thursday, 8th February 2007


I have already introduced TRIZ into Six Sigma.

Now I have about 3-4 case study showing how TRIZ and Six Sigma can be used together to solve the problems.

I think I may publish the paper within this year.


Message: 251
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Friday, 9th February 2007


Trev,

you are right about formal dates of announcing methodology and tools set for customer oriented and data-driven business process management and control under Six Sigma label in Motorola.

Majority of tools are much older anyway, as well as TRIZ.

I was mostly reffering to the 70s when particularly in East European countries the complete curriculum on Automation of Enteprices and Optimization of Technologiecal processes were launched (PCs were mature enough for its introduction). In US system engineering adn electric engineering were the most close to the topic. It was not called “six sgima”, but in fact it was.

Elena


Message: 252
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Friday, 9th February 2007


I am glad to hearing about this.

Could you, please, liet the main business impacts and  metrics which are affected by introducing TRIZ into Six Sigma?


Message: 253
Posted by: 6 Sigma Coordinator
Posted on: Friday, 9th February 2007


Right now.

I still can not show the impact of integrating TRIZ into Six Sigma.

I just have objective evidences how TRIZ is applied in Six Sigma projects (together with other SS tools).

I have case study show :

– How I can use TRIZ to analyze process contradiction and get idea but story was not finish there, I have to use other Six Sigma tools to solve the problem in subsequent step.

– After analysis by Six Sigma tools. I can use TRIZ to analyze contradiction and guide to the solution and use Six Sigma to verify the result and create control at subsequent steps.

The resut I get is just result from Six Sigma projects, not much different from other Six Sigma project.

I hope I can write this papar within this year and TRIZ Journal would accpet this paper (ha ha ha….)


Message: 258
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Friday, 9th February 2007


It does not really sound consistent with Six Sigma methodology:

you have introduced chnages in it and can not measure and justify that those changes led to the improvement of capability  of Six Sigma methodology, its implementation and/or results/business impact.?!..

Publication in the triz-journal could not be the only purpose of introducing TRIZ into SIx Sigma, although it may certainly effect your private carrie metrics, like number of publications, eventually citation index etc.

Anyway, for the future publication it is better to define and to measure business impacts of TRIZ introduction into Six Sigma Methodology, if I am in a position to give you some advice

Elena Averboukh


Message: 261
Posted by: 6 Sigma BB Coordinator
Posted on: Sunday, 11th February 2007


What's a surpriese!

You just not understand.

It is just Six Sigma projects.

Normally, we can measure the impacts — defect reduction or $.

The problem is that most of the time it is not easy (or imposible) to measure business impacts of TRIZ introduction into Six Sigma Methodology directly.

(You can seen the impact of the project but can not compare between impact with vs without TRIZ)

I am not sure if you have good experience in Six Sigma.

It seems you do not.

I do extensively how to measure this and end up with the conclusion that it is imposible to do with reasonable methods.

And for the purpose of publication is not just only the purpose of introduing TRIZ into Six Sigma.

I have seen many literatures saying introducing TRIZ into Six Sigma without objective evidence. That is week introduction.

I just think that the next step should be showing some case study supporting that. This is a good contribution to society.

If you think this is not valuable, I will publish somewhere else.

Borring of ones who not try to understand othes and usually think negatively.


Message: 262
Posted by: 6 Sigma BB Coordinator
Posted on: Monday, 12th February 2007


It is a joke.

You introduce this concopt :

 

*weak or no tools for efficient and exhaustive analysis of opportunities and problem formulation  in traditional Six Sigma set: Triz and especially I-TRIZ tools speed up and support it in a systematic and exaustive way

.- Define phase

*creative and knowledge-supported systematic search for root causes of failures or defects – Measure phase

* efficient analyltic analysis of the failure causes by comparing with analogies – Analysis phase

* enhancing ones knowledge space and assisting in brainstorming and generating highly efficient and innovative improvement/design ideas, leading min to 3-4 times sigma capability improvements – Improve/Design phase

*systemic and patent knowledge-based risk analysis and prediction of error free solutions and concepts – Verify/Control phase

 

It is better although to educate Master Black Belts not just in TRIZ but in TRIZ Six Sigma context within the traditional six sigma project management roadmaps.

 

Would appreciate any comments /experiences

 

 

I think you may have no evidence to show how this works.

(If you have —- just show them.)

When someone says “Hey I have that evidence”.

You says ???????

 

Right now, I can say I have that evidence.

However, the company who generate the case study do not want me to publish the impact but O.K. to share the method how the problems are solved.

 

(Certianly, I know SS Methodology very well. I am a master not a student.)

 

My English is not so well.

If you do not understand, then ask first.

Do not do any silly conclusion like this.

 

 

 

 


Message: 263
Posted by: Mike Carnell
Posted on: Monday, 12th February 2007


6 Sigma BB Coordinator,

I cannot see any reasonable way that you could be expected to produce numbers that represent it would have produced these savings without TRIZ and this much with TRIZ short of having two teams work the same issue. That would be a waste of resources.

There is value in what you have done and a good size audience that would appreciate getting the opportunity to see the application.

Just my opinion.

Good Luck


Message: 266
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Tuesday, 13th February 2007


Mike,

I will give just few examples, which do not cover all positive impacts.

we have experienced in multiple TRIZ to six sigma applications, e.g.

1) that problems which were remained unsolved even after six sigma projects were finalised, were finally solved and very efficiently. It is mainly because many improvements in Six Sigma projects address just special causes variation and do not have either time or ideas to address and resolve route causes of the problems. The difference is realised when we look at the long term savings (sustainability), not at the short term

2) that ” the design activity which usually takes 6 man-months was completed in 6 man-days and resulted in innovative design”. metrics- design cycle time/resources, number of innovations etc

Certainly, not only companies, but also Black and Master Black Belts do not want to “publish ” such results…

It is not a problem to define relevant metrics and to measure them, it is usually more difficult to publish or share openly the results.

Elena


Message: 267
Posted by: 6 Sigma BB Coordinator
Posted on: Tuesday, 13th February 2007


Elena,

You are not right to the point yet.

I do not have problem to address the result of sustainable improvement.

(Expect only my client do not want to share the result in $)

We measure defect reduction as the matric in the projects I mentioned.

Moreover, we do not have problems to identify root causes because we use not only Six Sigma tools and TRIZ but also modified Shinin, PM analysis, Fusion DOE and others.

(Normally we do not have any problems to find root causes when we use all of the tools properly)

The problems is I can not show the result of improvement from only TRIZ + Six Sigma because the improvement is from Fusion Six Sigma (Six Sigma + TRIZ + modified Shainin + PM analysis + Fusion DOE + etc.)

Mike understand the situation clearly.

He is right that it is a waste to find the result of Six Sigma + TRIZ.

I still wonder why you do not understand this simple massage.

I guess you have assumption that I am a novice in Six Sigma who usually doing somthing wrong.

Actually, I am one of a Master (may be No. 1 in my country).

My English may not be good, but my concept is not so silly as you guess.


Message: 268
Posted by: Mike Carnell
Posted on: Wednesday, 14th February 2007


Elena,

I am very much in agreement with BB Coordinator. We use anything and everything available to resolve a project and the idea of crossing an artificial boundary doesn't even make us think twice. We are judged on results not tool application so there is absolutely no advantage to restrict ourselves to any “discipline.”

Having said that:

Point 1. Because a project closes does not mean it is finished. We will close a project and implement a piece of a solution whenever it makes good business sense. If I can begin to realize benefits by closing a project why wouldn't I do that?

Having added TRIZ on to a completed project is different than solving the original issue without the benefit of the knowledge from the closed project. It is huge leap of faith to come behind someone and move the metric one more time.

Point 2. Has nothing to do with Six Sigma versus TRIZ. You point simply says TRIZ shortens the design cycle. I don't have enough personal data to make that decision.

If it has never been an issue to define relevant metrics and measure them it would be interesting to see the portfolio of projects you have worked on.

Just my opinion.


Message: 270
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Saturday, 17th February 2007


Mike,

sorry, I was not able to respond, as all my available PCs block the forum site, as well as the possibility to contact the web-site manager to check the usability (I have no problems with http://www.isixsigma.com forum on the same computers, so it might be a special cause).

First, for me TRIZ is a common sense efficient methodology since 30 years, and last 10 years relevant software tools have also become for me an everyday tool to use not only for training, but always in one or another way for consulting or coaching. But this is not yet a case for the “rest of the world”, especially six sigma world.

If I am responsible for the deployment and training concept, then I do not need to ask the client or get any confirmation to include TRIZ tools into the scope and context of Six Sigma methodology and tool set.

Seemingly, was not a problem for 6S Coordinator and for you. But for many companies it is a problem and a question of extra investments. I have actually started this discussion particularly for those  who still is questioning “go or not to go ” for TRIZ and relevant tools etc., and what kind of benefit (and ROI) they may get, if they decide “to go”.

As to my experiences, well, alltogether a whole variety of deployments incl. concept, planning, training and coaching from SMEs to global cross.-cultural corporations and their consortiums in both manufacturing, transactional and software worlds, business process improvement as well as DFSS.

I have a nice possibility to track the results of TRIZ introduction into established six sigma roadmaps and infrastructures, as  I am particularly conducting the Upgrade programmes for six sigma professionals at different levels, and very often they come to the course with the projects which have been performed during the last 1-3 years without any significant improvements, or if any, then just short term (so.called long standing problem).

One other metric which is affected very much due to my experience, is the number of re-designs due to the errors in original design or product adoptions to the changing requirements (from 3-4 redesigns to 0), and ,consequently overall costs (including post-sale).

I hope I have asked your questions.

Elena


Message: 271
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Saturday, 17th February 2007


BB Coordinator,

I have tried to answer both you and Mike in one response.

Certainly if TRIZ is already in everyday use, there is no issue. Like, when one drinks beer and wine, it is hard then to distinguish the single cause of the headacke and/or excitement, as the mixture is the cause.

I am not questioning your concept or competence at all. Certainly it is interesting to know more about your approach, its history and results.

Elena


Message: 293
Posted by: Mike Carnell
Posted on: Tuesday, 27th February 2007


Elena,

I don't think there is anything novel about the approach the either BB Coordinator or I use. I think you will find it very common among people who sell results not methodology.

Allegiance to a methodology (or a particular guru) to the exclusion of all other methodologies is just a form of bigotry – intellectual bigotry – but still bigotry. It is founded in ignorance and produces little or no value and in the business world the top guys are buying a result not a service and they have no interst in the intellectual bigotry.

Just my opinion.

Regards


Message: 295
Posted by: Elena Averboukh
Posted on: Tuesday, 27th February 2007


Mike.

if you were educator , you would care not only about What is the result but also about How one may get it, ideally within resources available, as well as how to explain others and establish a