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Is Not There the List of 39 Characteristic Parameter

| On 01, Jan 2010

Message: 1813
Posted by: Yuichiro Takai
Posted on: Thursday, 27th May 2010


Hello everyone!!

I am the beginner who began TRIZ in April.

Please help it.


Message: 1814
Posted by: Mark Barkan
Posted on: Saturday, 29th May 2010


There is one in TRIZ-Journal archives – see July, 1997 issue.


Message: 1815
Posted by: Alex Zakharov
Posted on: Sunday, 30th May 2010


Please find 40 principles of TRIZ with examples here – http://www.triz40.com


Message: 1817
Posted by: Yuichiro Takai
Posted on: Sunday, 30th May 2010


Dear Mr Zakharov

Thank you reply.

But I am troubled that I don't understand which 39 technical parameters a characteristic to become improvement / evil fulfills in a contradiction definition.

Is not there any good document?

Yuichiro Takai in Tokyo Japan


Message: 1818
Posted by: Yuichiro Takai
Posted on: Sunday, 30th May 2010


Dear Mr Barkan

Thank you reply.

Sorry  I do not seem to come with my skill of English well.

But I am troubled that I don't understand which 39 technical parameters a characteristic to become improvement / evil fulfills in a contradiction definition.

Is not there any good document?

Yuichiro Takai in Tokyo Japan


Message: 1823
Posted by: Ellen Domb
Posted on: Monday, 31st May 2010


See http://www.triz-journal.com/archives/1998/11/d/index.htm

This article is a translation and brief explanation of the 39 parameters (or characteristic) in the original contradiction matrix.   But there is nothing evil here!   To formulate a contradiction, you express the problem as “when X gets better, Y gets worse” or “when we try to make X get better, Y prevents us from doing it.”  You have assumed something about the solution to the problme in order to create this contradiction.  So, one way to remove the contradiction is to challenge the assumption.  Another way is to use the contradiction matrix.   Remember that the principles in the X,Y cell of the matrix are not the only principles that apply to your problem–they were the most popular ways to solve that problem when the matrix was developed in the 1970s.  For a more recent version, see Darrell Mann's book “Matrix 2010.”


Message: 1824
Posted by: Yuichiro Takai
Posted on: Monday, 31st May 2010


Hello Ellen.

Thank you reply!!

Thinking that I am particular in this case.

“The carpet cleaner loses the adhesive strength” is What should 39 technical parameters here choose?

For example “Force”? or “Quantity of substance/the matter“? or “Productivity“?

Words are difficult!!

Yuichiro Takai in Tokyo Japan


Message: 1825
Posted by: Ellen Domb
Posted on: Monday, 31st May 2010


You need to say more about the problem.  “The adhesive loses strength” is a problem, not a contradiction.   The characteristic could be strength, or force, or pressure, (if the adhesive loses strength because something else is not pressing it into contact with the floor) or stability of the object's composition (if it has degraded chemically, so it is weaker)  or reliability (it does not do what you expect it to do.)  

You need to state the problem as “X gets better but Y gets worse, with these assumptions about the nature of the problem and solution” — then you can try to match the characteristics with X and Y. 


Message: 1826
Posted by: Alex Zakharov
Posted on: Tuesday, 1st June 2010


Dear Yuichiro; Let?s go step by step. To do this, please, answer the question: ?How long is the period of time, in which carpet cleaner loses the adhesive strength??

For example, the answer is: ?We need to have a carpet cleaner composition with long shelf life.?

It means that you have here unsolved contradiction:Carpet cleaner composition with long shelf life is convenient for manufacturers and traders, but through the time this composition degrades chemically. For this case standard parameters in Altshuller?s Matrix could be:16: Durability of nonmoving object. AND13: Stability of the object composition. Please, check it here – http://www.triz40.com

For this pair the inventive principles (and clues for their applications) are: 39. Inert atmosphere39.1. Replace a normal environment with an inert one.39.2. Add neutral parts, or inert additives to an object.3. Local quality3.1. Change an object's structure from uniform to non-uniform, change an external environment (or external influence) from uniform to non-uniform.3.2. Make each part of an object function in conditions most suitable for its operation.3.3. Make each part of an object fulfill a different and useful function.35. Parameter changes35.1. Change an object's physical state (e.g. to a gas, liquid, or solid.)35.2. Change the concentration or consistency.35.3. Change the degree of flexibility.35.4. Change the temperature.23. Feedback23.1. Introduce feedback (referring back, cross-checking) to improve a process or action.23.2. If feedback is already used, change its magnitude or influence.

I suppose those clues 39.2., 3.1., 35.1., and 35.2. provide clear directions ? what to do with carpet cleaner composition.


Message: 1827
Posted by: Yuichiro Takai
Posted on: Thursday, 3rd June 2010


Dear Alex.

Thank you. A very plain commentary.

I am the same opinion, too.

——————————-

>Carpet cleaner composition with long shelf life is convenient for manufacturers and traders, but through the time this composition degrades chemically. For this case standard parameters in Altshuller?s Matrix could be: 16: Durability of nonmoving object.

——————————-

I am particular. The way of thinking of this part.

In particular,Standard parameters in Altshuller?s Matrix “16” is “The operating time of the standstill object” in Japanese.

It was difficult to regard an “operating time” as the “durability” in Japanese.

Cannot this but fit it? Or had better I think in English?

Yuichiro Takai in Tokyo Japan.


Message: 1828
Posted by: Alex Zakharov
Posted on: Sunday, 6th June 2010


Dear Yuichiro;To understand each other we need to speak the same language. For system parameters description, please, use the Altshuller's matrix in according to the link – http://www.triz40.comIn our case “Durability” means the long period of time of product storage in operating condition, and the long period of time of its use. It exactly fits to contradictive suggestion that durability (long period of time of product storage in operating condition) is good for manufacturer and retailer, but it bad for carpet cleaner quality. Sincerely,Alex