Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image Image
Scroll to top

Top

A Qustion About TRIZ Future

| On 01, Jan 2010

Message: 1798
Posted by: mehdi
Posted on: Sunday, 11th April 2010


Hi .What is triz forecasting about triz future ?Thanks .


Message: 1799
Posted by: Ellen Domb
Posted on: Sunday, 11th April 2010


“What is TRIZ forecasting about the future of TRIZ?” is my interpretation of your question.   TRIZ forecasting requires a lot of context definition, and a lot of analysis of the present state of the system, the subsystems, and the supersystem of the situation, which doesn't work in a short discussion forum answer.  My quick answer to you is that TRIZ will be absorbed into the supersystem, which is one of the patterns of innovation, and I have already seen this happen in some companies (TRIZ becomes part of Six Sigma, or part of the product development methodology, or even part of the strategic planning system.)   Likewise, in education, TRIZ is absorbed into the general education for business and engineering students (I think it should be for everybody, but this is reality) and does not continue as a separate subject, except for specialists.


Message: 1800
Posted by: Michel Lecoq
Posted on: Thursday, 15th April 2010


I agree with Ellen that TRIZ will be absorbed by a supersystem.The question is : Which supersystem ?Hopefully TRIZ will be part of the Human Brain “Judgement” supersystem.


Message: 1801
Posted by: Prashant Joglekar
Posted on: Friday, 16th April 2010


I feel what is important for TRIZ is that it improves the innovation capability of individuals. Its an aid to start thinking in patterns and store & conneect lot of know-how effortlessly. Accordong to me it does not have a scale, it will work for you the way you want it to work, so it can help you in your any systems improvement approach be it Lean, Six Sigma or LEAN. I am exploring it to be used to design organisationwide innovation eco-system, the system that has lot to do in creating organisational DNA.

Best Regards,

Prashant


Message: 1802
Posted by: David Troness
Posted on: Tuesday, 20th April 2010


I may not get the gist of this question, but I think it is a great area for discussion.  What follows are just my personal thoughts about the future of TRIZ…

I'm very unsure about where TRIZ might go, and I'm especially interested in where it will go in the nearer term.  Though I may be ostricized by the TRIZ and Six Sigma communities, I don't think it is good to have TRIZ absorbed into other things like six sigma or lean.  They are all different animals.  I am always irritated when people refer to TRIZ as another “tool” for people to put in their six sigma “tool box”… TRIZ is so much bigger than that.  Outside of Russia, or maybe just in my circle of contacts, TRIZ is too immature (or maybe we are too immature).  I think it is still growing and morphing – actually I prefer that it never stops growing, morphing and being improved.  That's the same reason I think that the certification movement is coming way too early.

I think it will be a long, long time until TRIZ can be appropriately absorbed into the supersystem… at least I hope it will.


Message: 1803
Posted by: Ellen Domb
Posted on: Tuesday, 20th April 2010


Great food for thought — my answer was where I see TRIZ going, not where I think it should go.  David:  I agree that if TRIZ is prematurely absorbed into a supersystem (such as Six Sigma) then it will be seen as “just” another tool or tool set, and its development as a methodology will be prematurely interrupted.  Certainly that is what has happened to both QFD and DoE–Six Sigma makes use of some of the basics of both methods, and has popularized them very widely, but has not contributed to the evolution of those systems. 


Message: 1804
Posted by: Prashant Joglekar
Posted on: Saturday, 24th April 2010


I fully agree with David's  view

Regards,

Prashant


Message: 1805
Posted by: Jack Hipple
Posted on: Tuesday, 27th April 2010


TRIZ is not a complete process any more than Six Sigma is. It does not take into account subtle consumer preferences, short term changes, nor accurately forecast time horizons. On the other hand, Six Sigma has no problem solving tools–once the data has been gathered, it is suggested that a group “brainstorm” the answer. Like it or not, Six Sigma and DFSS have morphed into enterprise processes used by many large organizations. One can try to fight this reality (and lose most of the time: “my process is better than your process”) or accept the reality and use the aspects of TRIZ which complement the larger process. When people see the use of the parts of the TRIZ tool kit and process, they are then tempted to learn more. The only aspect of TRIZ which the global TRIZ community has standardized around is the ARIZ algorithm. Everything else is modified, described somewhat differently, or combined with something else and remaned. That's the unfortunate truth and extremely unlikely to change in the forseeable future.


Message: 1806
Posted by: Alex Zakharov
Posted on: Thursday, 29th April 2010


TRIZ was born, is being developed and used as the tool of the decision of problems intechnology, in manufacturing, in society and nature. The base of TRIZ is objective trends ofnature evolution. So, TRIZ is a theoretical, methodological and practical part of the generaltheory of evolution.Trends, which were revised, rethought and presented in new form, will be put in a basis ofcreating of next generation of TRIZ ? universal computer program, which is intended forresearch of evolution of any systems.


Message: 1807
Posted by: Praveen Gupta
Posted on: Sunday, 9th May 2010


It is interesting that the question is being asked today. I explored this question in 2003, and concluded that TRIZ is a great system to solve serious technical problems innovatively. It is a subsystem to the larger organization wide innovation super system. I hope it does not get lost in rhetorical aspect of Six Sigma. It can complement any methodology that requires TRIZ skill set. In my opinion, TRIZ was restricted due to its perceived rigid 40 principles type approach that made it look like a tool set. I love TRIZ?s system?s approach to developing a solution.

I hope TRIZ remains independent inventive problem solving body of knowledge (avoiding any kind of label to TRIZ). At the same time TRIZ can become a part of any serious innovation methodology that is going to be implemented throughout organization. That is going to be more than one.


Message: 1808
Posted by: Alex Zakharov
Posted on: Tuesday, 11th May 2010


Praveen Gupta: It is interesting that the question is being asked today. I explored this question in 2003, and concluded that TRIZ is a great system to solve serious technical problems innovatively. Alex Zakharov: There were hundreds TRIZ studies a long before 2003, which proved that TRIZ is a great system to solve technical problems. TRIZ was conceived from its beginning, born and developed namely as a tool to solve problems. All TRIZ?s practical applications proved it. Praveen Gupta: I hope TRIZ remains independent inventive problem solving body of knowledge (avoiding any kind of label to TRIZ). At the same time TRIZ can become a part of any serious innovation methodology that is going to be implemented throughout organization… Alex Zakharov: ?TRIZ is changing qualitatively. The first stage is TRIZ itself; II stage is Theory of Development of Creative Person; III stage – ? We're leaving technology behind us. Sometimes the nostalgic feelings for technological problems are appeared, but trend of transition to Supersystem operates without dependence on our will. The basic interest should be a humanitarian component.The main problem is in the human being. I am convinced that it is the main road to the future. The product of the future will appear only here. Already tomorrow the center of events will be at TDCP stage, and then the third stage will come.What will be there? I still do not know…? [Prospects of TRIZ Development by G.Altshuller Appeal at meeting of Board of TRIZ Association Journal of TRIZ 1990 Vol. 1 № 2 p. 4] TRIZ was born, is being developed and used as the tool for solving problems in technology, manufacturing, society, and nature. The base of TRIZ is objective trends of nature evolution. So, TRIZ is a theoretical, methodological and practical part of the general theory of evolution. To find features of future TRIZ it needs to determine the main function of TRIZ and then to analyze TRIZ itself using laws (trends) of evolution. This work has been done; the result is in form of the ?portrait? features of future TRIZ:- Future TRIZ will be the set of elements that on the base of adequacy of entered information to the real surrounding world, generates the real image of the studied object (system) with the goal to satisfy User?s need — the life in understandable, sustainable and comfortable world;- Universality of tools for problems solution; – User?s elimination out of tools.These features, even if they are too heretical, will be integrated into Artificial Intelligence (AI) system. Function of AI is help to civilization to solve its problems?


Message: 1809
Posted by: S.Mahdi Golestan Hashemi
Posted on: Saturday, 15th May 2010


It is helpful that we review the history of science ( and also the philosophy of science ) ,  reviews shows that there are several witnesses for absorption of TRIZ into the a super-system .                    I beleive that this super-system is a comprehensive scientific discipline of creativity & innovation : an inter-disciplinary and multi-disciplinary science of creativity and innovation : Creatology ( or Innovatology ) . All aspects of all creative processes and phenomenas(ideas, invention &innovations) in all of the fields ( science , Technology , Art , Society ,etc ) can study by various scientific approaches and methodologies , for example Psychological , Managerial , Educational , Analytical , and so on . So this super-system or total discipline   ( Creatology ) included several sub-ciplines :                         Psychological Creatology , Managerial /Organizational Creatology , Educational Creatology, Bionical Creatology,….                              and TRIZical Creatology .                                                               Also it is important that we consider TRIZ as same as the other disciplines such as Mathematics has two dimension : General dimension ( for all ) and Special dimension ( for specialists ) .  I beleive that TRIZ specialists are TRIZical Creatologist .   


Message: 1810
Posted by: Nikolai Khomenko
Posted on: Tuesday, 18th May 2010


 

It is a paradox.

Many people in the Internet  talk about TRIZ. However instead they talk about Toolbox that was created by using TRIZ. About TRIZ itself  you can hardly find in the internet at leas one dozen of publications in English and Russianas well. I mean very mature and powerful theory that was created by Genrich Altshuller as a theoretical basis for creating powerful tools for solving non typical (creative problems, if you like) problematic situations. Most of Altshuller's TRIZ heritage are still unknown even for Russain TRIZ comunity. It has several very important historical reasons.

 

I would say that TRIZ as a theory that is pretty mature. As far as I learn it ifrom the Author directly. Not so many were interested in Theory most learn TRIZ as a toolbocx only. TRIZ Reach end of its S-curve in the middle of 1980s. Last drop was added just in July 1997 – The Third postulate of Classical TRIZ. 

 

However toolbox of TRIZ can and should be improved. It has a very good prospective in Evolution. It can be of cause became a part of certain system as well as integrate some other system into itself, or it can be complementary to many system of tools for solving various particular problematic situation. Like Six Sigma for instance. It is truth if we talk about TRIZ as a well organized toolbox for solving mostly Engineering problems.  TRIZ based Toolbox still have a grate potential in Evolution

 

But if we talk about TRIZ as a Theory on creating powerful domain free tools for solving various complex problems that it can be useful study what was done by Altshuller in this particular direction. Most of his classes and his followers have learned TRIZ just as a toolbox but not so many of them  were interested in TRIZ as a Theory on creating those tools. In the classroom Altshuller has taught just to TOOLBOX, but THEORY people have learn from him individually in his home or by conventional mail.

 

About Forecast on TRIZ evolution as a theory. Altshuller foresee in the middle of 1970s that TRIZ will reach its S-curve end soon. That is why he proposed to develop TSM (Theory of Powerful Thinking). Later in the beginning of 1980 he change the name of new theory, that he was working on, as OTSM (General Theory on Powerful Thinking). He have seen in 1997 that his forecast was very good. More or less complete theoretical background and first generation of OTSM tools were created. Today we have already second generation and work on the third one. Same as TRIZ, OTSM is mature enough and during last years was not changed too much. However new and new generations of OTSM toolbox is coming.

 

More precise forecast on TRIZ evolution was done by Genrich Altshuller and Igor Vertkin in their book – How to become Genius. It was very precise and unbelievable for most of TRIZ community at that time, but this forecast came truth as well. Unfortunately. One of the fact that for most of modern TRIZ community TRIZ is just a set of random tools, not a mature theory on creating those tools?.

But this is totally new subject for discussion.

Another super-system that TRIZ has evolved according Forecast of Altshuller is a Theory on developing Creative Personality.

 

One of Subsystem of TRIZ that started appear in the 1985 according Altshuller forecast is a Theory of Engineering System Evolution. According Altshuller's idea it is a background for creating powerful toolbox for improving and forecasting in Engineering Domain (Russian Acronym – TRTS). Youry Salamatof is one of the most contributive person in this part of TRIZ and its toolbox evolution.

 

Another forecast that was done in the middle of 1980s was about domain of TRIZ evolution. It is already done in several direction now and continuer to be developed by not so well speakers in English but very good TRIZ experts.

 

Do we like it or not but official TRIZ language is still – Russian and most of information and research is done and continue by Independent researchers who do not belong to any TRIZ association. They just communicate among each others. They remember that very first TRIZ association was created across desire of Altshuller. He just have to accept these as an inevitable evil  and was trying to minimize damages that TRIZ association can make for TRIZ evolution at that time. He clear foreseen the role of thise association. As I wrote above in his book he make very clear forecast about mass implementation and dissemination of innovation. This forecast is based on the trends of evolution of many disruptive ideas and innovations. That is why the forecast of Altshuller do work. So to see their forecast that is already partially comes truth you can

read the book by G.Altshuller and I.Vertkin “How to become Genius” Minsk. Belarus 1994. First version of the forecast was presented to Russian TRIZ community in 19985. Joke Forecast on TRIZ society evolution was done first in 1985 in the form of Fairy tails about cats that have to learn how to get mice. Later it short version was published in the book To Find an Idea in 1986.


Message: 1816
Posted by: Praveen Gupta
Posted on: Sunday, 30th May 2010


Hello All TRIZ Experts: Call for Duty!

BP needs help in fixing the leaking oil well problem. They are seeking ideas. Maybe, somebody could apply various TRIZ principles and come up with a list of possible solutions. This is an opportunity for TRIZ like matured methodology.

Best,

Praveen


Message: 1822
Posted by: Praveen Gupta
Posted on: Monday, 31st May 2010


Here is a link to submit innovative solution to solve the leaking oil well probelm in deep sea.

http://www.horizonedocs.com/artform.php

Best Wishes,

Praveen